{"id":2168125,"date":"2026-03-12T14:35:00","date_gmt":"2026-03-12T18:35:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/?p=2168125&#038;post_type=podcast&#038;preview_id=2168125"},"modified":"2026-03-13T12:17:39","modified_gmt":"2026-03-13T16:17:39","slug":"what-the-health-437-rfk-jr-kennedy-casey-means-prasad-march-12-2026","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/podcast\/what-the-health-437-rfk-jr-kennedy-casey-means-prasad-march-12-2026\/","title":{"rendered":"What the Health? From KFF Health News: RFK Jr.\u2019s Very Bad Week"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"block--iframe\">\n\t<iframe\n\t\tallow=\"fullscreen\"\n\t\tframeborder=\"0\"\n\t\theight=\"188\"\n\t\tsrc=\"https:\/\/play.prx.org\/e?ge=prx_14448_84f27cb7-f095-488f-8c59-dc4417c23cde&#038;uf=https%3A%2F%2Fwhatthehealth.feeds.wamu.org\"\n\t\twidth=\"100%\"\n\t><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tThe Host\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container single\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg 1100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Julie Rovner<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">KFF Health News<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" title=\"@jrovner\">\n\t\t\t\t@jrovner\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" title=\"@julierovner.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@julierovner.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/author\/julie-rovner\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Julie&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\tJulie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of KFF Health News\u2019 weekly health policy news podcast, &quot;What the Health?&quot; A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book &quot;Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z,&quot; now in its third edition.\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s been a tough week for Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. In addition to Kennedy having surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff, personnel issues continue to plague the department: The nominee to become surgeon general, an ally of Kennedy\u2019s, may lack the votes for Senate confirmation. The controversial head of the Food and Drug Administration\u2019s vaccine center will be resigning next month. And a new survey finds Americans have less trust in HHS leaders now than they did during the pandemic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, the Trump administration continues its crackdown over claims of rampant health care fraud. In addition to targeting the Medicaid programs in states led by Democratic governors, the Centers for Medicare &amp; Medicaid Services is also taking aim at previously sacrosanct Medicare Advantage plans.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This week\u2019s panelists are Julie Rovner of KFF Health News, Anna Edney of Bloomberg News, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine, and Shefali Luthra of The 19th.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tPanelists\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container threewide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg 959w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=500,501 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=768,769 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Edney.jpg?resize=630,631 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Anna Edney<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Bloomberg News<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/annaedney\" title=\"@annaedney\">\n\t\t\t\t@annaedney\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/annaedney.bsky.social\" title=\"@annaedney.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@annaedney.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.bloomberg.com\/authors\/AP519FMOg7w\/anna-edney\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Anna&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg 483w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Kenen_438sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Joanne Kenen<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Johns Hopkins University and Politico<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/JoanneKenen\" title=\"@JoanneKenen\">\n\t\t\t\t@JoanneKenen\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/joannekenen.bsky.social\" title=\"@joannekenen.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@joannekenen.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/hbhi.jhu.edu\/expert\/joanne-kenen\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Joanne&#039;s bio.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg 757w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Luthra_757sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Shefali Luthra<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">The 19th<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/shefali.bsky.social\" title=\"@shefali.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@shefali.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/19thnews.org\/author\/shefali-luthra\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Shefali&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Among the takeaways from this week\u2019s episode:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Americans feel more confident in career scientists at federal health agencies than in the agencies\u2019 leaders, according to a new survey from the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania. Yet the survey also sheds more light on the erosion of trust in public health officials and scientific research.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The FDA\u2019s vaccine chief, Vinay Prasad, is leaving \u2014 again. Prasad was a critic of the agency before he joined it, and his tenure has been shaped by the same attitude, affecting career officials\u2019 morale and the agency\u2019s interactions with outside companies.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Trump administration has extended its fraud crackdown campaign into Medicare Advantage plans. The privately run alternative to traditional Medicare coverage has been a GOP darling from the get-go. Yet President Donald Trump is nudging the party away from its pro-business stance on private insurance, arguing the government should give money to patients rather than insurers \u2014 a justification for policies undermining the Affordable Care Act.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>And Wyoming became the latest state to enact a six-week abortion ban, a move that\u2019s being challenged in court. The development points to the fact that while federal policymaking on abortion has largely stalled, the issue is still very much in play in the states as abortion opponents keep pushing back on access to the procedure.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Also this week, Rovner interviews Andy Schneider of Georgetown University about the Trump administration\u2019s crackdown on what it alleges is rampant Medicaid fraud in Democratic-led states.<\/p>\n\n\n<div\n\tclass=\"wp-block block--newsletter  \"\n\tdata-type=\"kaiser-health-news\/newsletter\"\n\tdata-align=\"center\"\n\tstyle=\"\"\n>\n\t<h4 class=\"newsletter__title\">\n\t\t<a href=\"\/email\/\">\n\t\t\tEmail Sign-Up\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/h4>\n\t<p class=\"newsletter__description\">\n\t\tSubscribe to KFF Health News&#039; free Morning Briefing.\t<\/p>\n\t\n<form\n\taction=\"\/email-signup\/\"\n\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form\"\n\tmethod=\"post\"\n>\n\t<input type=\"hidden\" id=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" name=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" value=\"87a489a56a\" \/><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"_wp_http_referer\" value=\"\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/2168125\" \/>\t\t\t\t<label\n\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__label--email\"\n\t\tfor=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t>\n\t\t<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">\n\t\t\tYour Email Address\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<input\n\t\t\tautocomplete=\"email\"\n\t\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__input--email\"\n\t\t\tid=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t\t\tname=\"kaiser_hubspot_email\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"email\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tplaceholder=\"Your email address\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t<\/label>\n\t<button class=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__submit\">\n\t\tSign Up\t<\/button>\n<\/form>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Plus, for \u201cextra credit\u201d the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong> The Marshall Project\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.themarshallproject.org\/2026\/03\/02\/immigration-detention-releases-family-dilley\">The Harrowing Journey Home for Families Leaving Immigration Detention<\/a>,\u201d by Shannon Heffernan, Jesse Bogan, and Anna Flagg.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anna Edney:<\/strong> The Wall Street Journal\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wsj.com\/health\/healthcare\/autism-therapy-medicaid-payments-640aa435?mod=hp_lead_pos7\">The Boom in Autism Therapy Is Medicaid\u2019s Fastest-Growing Jackpot<\/a>,\u201d by Christopher Weaver, Tom McGinty, and Anna Wilde Mathews.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Shefali Luthra:<\/strong> The New York Times\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/03\/02\/health\/hiv-drugs-ryan-white.html\">States Move To Limit Access to H.I.V. Treatment<\/a>,\u201d by Apoorva Mandavilli.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Joanne Kenen:<\/strong> The Idaho Capital Sun\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/idahocapitalsun.com\/2026\/02\/18\/988-ended-his-call-now-an-idaho-teen-is-pushing-for-a-fix-to-states-parental-consent-law\/\">988 Ended His Call. Now an Idaho Teen Is Pushing for a Fix to State\u2019s Parental Consent Law<\/a>,\u201d by Laura Guido.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also mentioned in this week\u2019s podcast:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>The Annenberg Public Policy Center\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org\/stark-divide-americans-more-confident-in-career-scientists-at-u-s-health-agencies-than-leaders\/\">Stark Divide: Americans More Confident in Career Scientists at U.S. Health Agencies Than Leaders<\/a>.\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>KFF Health News\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/nih-national-institutes-of-health-scientist-exodus-disease-treatments\/\">Six Federal Scientists Run Out by Trump Talk About the Work Left Undone<\/a>,\u201d by Rachana Pradhan and Katheryn Houghton.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Bloomberg Law\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/news.bloomberglaw.com\/health-law-and-business\/trump-administration-funding-delays-worry-nih-grant-recipients-23\">Trump Administration Funding Delays Worry NIH Grant Recipients<\/a>,\u201d by Sandhya Raman.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The 19th\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/19thnews.org\/2026\/03\/abortion-bans-reproductive-health-rental-market-research\/\">Abortion Bans Reshaped Reproductive Health, and Now the Rental Market<\/a>,\u201d by Shefali Luthra.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Georgetown University McCourt School of Public Policy Center for Children and Families\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/ccf.georgetown.edu\/2026\/03\/02\/cms-weaponizes-fraud-against-medicaid-in-minnesota-part-2\/\">CMS Weaponizes Fraud Against Medicaid in Minnesota: Part 2<\/a>,\u201d by Andy Schneider.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Clarification:<\/em><\/strong><em>&nbsp;This page was updated at 5:10 p.m. ET on March 12, 2026, to clarify that Vinay Prasad, the FDA&#8217;s vaccine chief, will be leaving his job in April. In an email after publication, William Maloney, an HHS spokesperson, said Prasad is &#8220;leaving of his own accord.&#8221;<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<section class=\"block--expandable has-label\"\n\t\t\tid=\"podcast-expandable\"\n\t>\n\t\t\t<input type=\"checkbox\" name=\"expandable-radio\" id=\"transcript-rfk-jr-s-very-bad-week\">\n\t\t<label class=\"expandable__title-label\" for=\"transcript-rfk-jr-s-very-bad-week\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__label  \"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"background-color: #cb1919;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\tclick to open the transcript\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__title\"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"font-size: 36px;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTranscript: RFK Jr.\u2019s Very Bad Week\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content--container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<p><em>[<\/em><strong><em>Editor\u2019s note:<\/em><\/strong><em>&nbsp;This transcript&nbsp;was generated&nbsp;using both transcription software and a human\u2019s light touch. It has&nbsp;been edited&nbsp;for style and clarity.]<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello from&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;News and WAMU&nbsp;public radio&nbsp;in Washington, D.C. Welcome to&nbsp;<em>What the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;Julie Rovner,&nbsp;chief Washington correspondent for&nbsp;KFF Health&nbsp;News, and&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;joined by&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the best and smartest reporters covering Washington. We are taping this week on Thursday, March 12, at 10&nbsp;a.m.&nbsp;As always, news happens fast and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So,&nbsp;here we go.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today&nbsp;we&nbsp;are joined&nbsp;via videoconference by Shefali Luthra&nbsp;of the 19th.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Shefali Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Anna&nbsp;Edney of&nbsp;Bloomberg News.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anna Edney:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hi,&nbsp;everybody.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;Joanne&nbsp;Kenen&nbsp;at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and&nbsp;Politico&nbsp;Magazine.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Joanne Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hi,&nbsp;everybody.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Later in this episode,&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;have my interview with Andy Schneider of Georgetown University, who will try to explain how the federal government\u2019s fraud crackdown on blue-state Medicaid programs&nbsp;is something&nbsp;completely different from any fraud-fighting effort&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;seen before. But first,&nbsp;this week\u2019s news&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and&nbsp;some of&nbsp;last&nbsp;week\u2019s.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let\u2019s&nbsp;start at the Department of Health and Human Services, where I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;safe to say Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr.&nbsp;is not having&nbsp;a great week. The&nbsp;secretary&nbsp;reportedly had&nbsp;to have his rotator cuff surgically repaired on Tuesday.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;not clear if he injured it during one of his famous video workouts. But it is clear, at least according to&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org\/stark-divide-americans-more-confident-in-career-scientists-at-u-s-health-agencies-than-leaders\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">a new survey<\/a>&nbsp;from the University of Pennsylvania\u2019s Annenberg Center, that the American public is not buying what&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;selling when it comes to policy. According to the survey, public trust in HHS agencies, which already took a dive during the pandemic, has fallen even more since Kennedy took over the department. Although, interestingly, public trust in career HHS officials is higher than it is for their political leaders. And trust in outside professional health organizations, places like the American Heart Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics, is higher than for any of the government entities.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Perhaps related to that is another piece of HHS&nbsp;news from&nbsp;this week.&nbsp;The FDA&nbsp;[Food and Drug Administration]&nbsp;approved a label change for the drug leucovorin, which Secretary Kennedy last fall very aggressively touted as a potential treatment for autism. But the drug&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;approved&nbsp;to treat autism. Rather, the label changes to treat a rare genetic condition. Kennedy bragged about leucovorin, by the way, at&nbsp;the same press conference that President&nbsp;[Donald]&nbsp;Trump urged pregnant women not to take Tylenol, which has not&nbsp;been shown&nbsp;to contribute to the rise in autism.&nbsp;Maybe it\u2019s&nbsp;fair to say the public is paying attention to the&nbsp;news&nbsp;and that helps explain the results of this Annenberg Center survey?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:&nbsp;<\/strong>Maybe.&nbsp;I was just thinking, we do know that Tylenol prescriptions for people who are pregnant did go down,&nbsp;right? There\u2019s research that shows,&nbsp;after that press conference,&nbsp;behaviors did change. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;to your point,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;clear there is&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;confusion, and confusion&nbsp;maybe breeds&nbsp;mistrust. But I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know that we can necessarily say that American voters and the public at large are very obviously informed as&nbsp;much&nbsp;as they are&nbsp;perhaps disenchanted&nbsp;by things that seem as if they&nbsp;were told&nbsp;would restore trust and make things clearer and in fact have not done so.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;a&nbsp;fair assessment.&nbsp;Anna.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Edney:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I think&nbsp;there\u2019s a lot of overpromising and underdelivering, and that can kind of create this issue where this administration&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and RFK Jr.&nbsp;has been doing this as well&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;kind of is making these decisions from the top, rather than having these normal conversations with the career scientists and things like that, where the public can kind of follow along on why the scientific decisions are being made if they so choose to,&nbsp;or at least&nbsp;have an idea that there was a discussion out there. And&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not happening. So&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not something&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;creating&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;trust.&nbsp;I think people&nbsp;are seeing that as unscientific and chaotic.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I was&nbsp;particularly interested in one of the findings in the survey,&nbsp;is that Dr.&nbsp;Fauci, Dr.&nbsp;Tony Fauci, who was&nbsp;sort of&nbsp;the&nbsp;b\u00eate noire&nbsp;of the pandemic, has a higher approval rating than either RFK Jr.&nbsp;or&nbsp;some of&nbsp;his top deputies.&nbsp;Joanne, I see you nodding.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah&nbsp;that was so&nbsp;stri\u2014&nbsp;I mean,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;still not high. It was,&nbsp;I believe it&nbsp;was&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;looking for my note&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;but I&nbsp;think&nbsp;was 54%,&nbsp;which is not great. But it&nbsp;was better than&nbsp;Dr.&nbsp;[Mehmet]&nbsp;Oz&nbsp;[head of the Centers for Medicare &amp; Medicaid Services]. It was better than Kennedy. It&nbsp;was better than a bunch of people.&nbsp;So,&nbsp;but it also shows that&nbsp;half&nbsp;the country still&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;trust him.&nbsp;It was&nbsp;a really interesting&nbsp;survey, but the gaps in trust in credible science are still significant. What was interesting is the declining trust in our government officials in health&nbsp;care, but&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;still,&nbsp;nationally, the U.S.&nbsp;population,&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;still&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;skepticism of science and public health. Maybe not as bad as it was, but still&nbsp;pretty bad.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;And Julie, you alluded to these famous push-up and workout videos. And part of what&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;getting at&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;right?&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;is that the communications that we see&nbsp;are targeted&nbsp;toward a not necessarily&nbsp;very large&nbsp;audience.&nbsp;It is these people who are hyper-online,&nbsp;in particular internet&nbsp;spaces and communities, and that\u2019s&nbsp;somewhat divorced&nbsp;from most people and how they live their lives.&nbsp;And when you focus&nbsp;your message and you\u2019re campaigning on this very particular slice, it\u2019s just&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;easier to lose sight of where people are and what they want from their government and what they will&nbsp;actually appreciate.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>It\u2019s&nbsp;true.&nbsp;The online&nbsp;America is very separate from the rest of America, which is a&nbsp;whole lot bigger.&nbsp;Well\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;also the young people who&nbsp;probably&nbsp;aren\u2019t&nbsp;in these surveys who,&nbsp;teenagers,&nbsp;who&nbsp;are getting&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;information on TikTok about supplements and raw milk.&nbsp;And the young men and the teenage boys and the supplements&nbsp;is a big deal, and&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;online. And&nbsp;also&nbsp;we have been&nbsp;seeing&nbsp;for a while, but I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;probably creeping&nbsp;up,&nbsp;the recommendations about psychedelics.&nbsp;So&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;all this stuff out there that&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;going to&nbsp;be picked&nbsp;up by that poll. But yes, it was an interesting poll.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;All right. Well, meanwhile over at the Food and Drug Administration, in-again&nbsp;out-again in-again&nbsp;vaccine chief Vinay Prasad is&nbsp;apparently out&nbsp;again, or&nbsp;will be as of later this spring. I feel like Prasad\u2019s very rocky&nbsp;tenure has been&nbsp;kind of a&nbsp;microcosm for the difficulties this administration has had working with&nbsp;career&nbsp;scientists at FDA and elsewhere, at HHS.&nbsp;Anna, what made him so controversial?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Edney:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well, I think, Prasad was an FDA critic before he came to the agency. And so&nbsp;essentially,&nbsp;when he was out in public, particularly during covid, but there were even criticisms he had before that.&nbsp;He was criticizing these career scientists at the agency. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;he got there, and the way he appeared to&nbsp;operate&nbsp;was that he knew&nbsp;best&nbsp;and he&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;need to talk to any of these people that had been there,&nbsp;some&nbsp;for decades, and that was getting him in&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;trouble. But he was&nbsp;being defended&nbsp;and protected by FDA&nbsp;Commissioner Martin Makary, and he really supported Prasad, and he called him a genius and wanted him to stay on.&nbsp;So&nbsp;the first time Prasad left, he convinced him to come back. And now this time, I think, things&nbsp;maybe just&nbsp;went&nbsp;a bridge too far when there was sort of this behind-the-scenes but very public fight with a company trying to make a rare-disease drug. And this is something that,&nbsp;particularly,&nbsp;several&nbsp;senators really, really hate, is when the FDA is getting in the way of a rare-disease drug getting to market, because they don\u2019t think that that\u2019s something the agency should be trying to do unless the drug is&nbsp;maybe wholly&nbsp;unsafe. But they think&nbsp;anyone&nbsp;should be able to try it. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;when this exploded and FDA officials were and HHS officials were behind the scenes, but very publicly, calling this company a liar, it was just a bridge too far.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well, and he,&nbsp;this was,&nbsp;this incredibly unusual&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/03\/06\/health\/fda-prasad-resigns.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">phone call with reporters<\/a>&nbsp;in which he tried to not be quoted by name, but kind of hard when the head of the agency, or the head of the&nbsp;center at FDA is basically trashing a company,&nbsp;trying to do it on background. Was that kind of the last straw?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Edney:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I think so. And&nbsp;sort of an&nbsp;aside&nbsp;on&nbsp;that.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;curious how that phone call&nbsp;even&nbsp;was&nbsp;allowed&nbsp;to be set up and called.&nbsp;Because,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not like he did it on his own. There&nbsp;were,&nbsp;there was an infrastructure around him that helped him set that up.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;curious about why that even went down, but&nbsp;I think that&nbsp;was&nbsp;definitely what&nbsp;pushed him out the door. You know, this company wanted to get this drug approved. The FDA had said,&nbsp;<em>No, not unless you do this extremely difficult trial<\/em>, which the company said would require drilling holes in people\u2019s heads,&nbsp;for what they were trying to get approved, and that it would be a placebo, essentially, for some of those patients, even when you get a hole drilled in your head, and this could be a 10-hour sham surgery, is what the company said. And then&nbsp;Prasad comes&nbsp;out and&nbsp;says:&nbsp;<em>No,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;lying.&nbsp;That&nbsp;definitely could&nbsp;be a half-hour.&nbsp;No big deal.<\/em>&nbsp;And&nbsp;I just think that there&nbsp;were&nbsp;senators frustrated with this, the White House&nbsp;not wanting to&nbsp;see another thing blow&nbsp;up over rare-disease drugs, because that has, there&nbsp;have&nbsp;been&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;issues at FDA under his tenure, of just drugs not being able to get to market. Or&nbsp;having issues with vaccines that have been years in development not being able to&nbsp;get even reviewed, and then that&nbsp;being reversed.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it was&nbsp;just,&nbsp;that was&nbsp;kind of the&nbsp;last straw.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;of&nbsp;course&nbsp;President Trump himself has been a big proponent of this whole Right to Try effort,&nbsp;that it should be easier for people with, particularly with terminal diseases to be able to try drugs that may or may not help.&nbsp;Joanne, you want to add something.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;Also&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;he still,&nbsp;Prasad, still living in California and running up&nbsp;really huge&nbsp;travel bills and\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;\u2014not being at the FDA very much, at a time when everybody else has&nbsp;been forced&nbsp;to come back to work?&nbsp;So,&nbsp;but I do confess that I keep looking at my phone to check if&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;still out or&nbsp;is he&nbsp;already back again.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;really not&nbsp;totally convinced that this is the end of Prasad, but&nbsp;yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;I was not kidding when I said&nbsp;on-again&nbsp;off-again on-again&nbsp;off-again. All right. Well, moving over to the National Institutes of Health, which also has a director&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;doing more than one job in more than one place. I know there\u2019s so much news that it\u2019s hard to keep track of it all, but I do think it\u2019s important to continue to follow things that look to&nbsp;be settled, like funding for the NIH,&nbsp;which Congress&nbsp;actually increased&nbsp;in the spending bill that passed at the end of January. To that end, a shout-out to our podcast panelist&nbsp;Sandhya Raman, formerly of CQ,&nbsp;now at Bloomberg, for&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/news.bloomberglaw.com\/health-law-and-business\/trump-administration-funding-delays-worry-nih-grant-recipients-23\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">reporting that<\/a>&nbsp;grant funding that still pays for most of the nation\u2019s basic biomedical research is still being held up. This is months after it&nbsp;was ordered&nbsp;resumed by courts and appropriated by Congress.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Shout-out as well to my&nbsp;KFF Health&nbsp;News colleagues&nbsp;Rachana Pradhan&nbsp;and Katheryn&nbsp;Houghton for&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/nih-national-institutes-of-health-scientist-exodus-disease-treatments\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">their project<\/a>&nbsp;on the people and research projects that have been disrupted by all the cuts at NIH,&nbsp;as well as new bureaucratic hurdles put in place. I feel like if there weren\u2019t so much else going on, what\u2019s happening at&nbsp;basically the&nbsp;economic and health engine of NIH would be getting much,&nbsp;much,&nbsp;much&nbsp;more attention, particularly because of the continuing brain drain with researchers moving to other countries and students choosing different careers rather than becoming researchers. I wonder if this sort&nbsp;of drip,&nbsp;drip, drip at NIH is going to turn into a very long-term hole&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;going to be&nbsp;very difficult&nbsp;to fill.&nbsp;A&nbsp;lot of&nbsp;these things have years-&nbsp;if not decades-long runways.&nbsp;These great scientific achievements start somewhere, and it looks like&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;just&nbsp;sort of pulling&nbsp;out the whole starting part.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;already affecting the pipeline. In graduate schools,&nbsp;many&nbsp;schools fund their PhD candidates, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;NIH money, or partly NIH money.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;different&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not an expert in every single school\u2019s&nbsp;support&nbsp;systems&nbsp;for PhD candidates, but I do know that the pipeline has&nbsp;been shrunken&nbsp;in&nbsp;some&nbsp;fields at&nbsp;some&nbsp;schools, and&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;been&nbsp;reported&nbsp;on&nbsp;widely. And&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;been&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;coverage about years and&nbsp;years of research. You&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;just restart a multiyear,&nbsp;complicated clinical trial or research project. Once you stop it,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;losing everything to date, right? You&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;just&nbsp;sort of say,&nbsp;<em>Oh,&nbsp;I\u2019ll&nbsp;put it on hold for a couple of years and resume it.<\/em>&nbsp;You&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;do that.&nbsp;So&nbsp;we\u2019ve already reached&nbsp;some kind of&nbsp;a&nbsp;critical&nbsp;point.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;just a matter of how much worse it gets, or whether the ship begins to stabilize in any way going forward. But there\u2019s already damage.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I say,&nbsp;are you guys as surprised as I am, though, that this isn\u2019t&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;the NIH has been this sort of bipartisan jewel that everybody has supported over the decades that I\u2019ve been covering it, and now it\u2019s&nbsp;basically being&nbsp;dismantled in front of our eyes, and nobody\u2019s saying very much about&nbsp;it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;also an engine of economic growth.&nbsp;You see different ROI&nbsp;[return on investment]&nbsp;numbers when you look at NIH, but I think the lowest number you hear is&nbsp;two and a half dollars of benefit for every dollar we invest. And&nbsp;I\u2019ve&nbsp;seen&nbsp;reports&nbsp;up to $7.&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know what the magic number is, but this is an engine of economic growth in the United States. This is basic biomedical research that the private sector or the academic sector cannot do.&nbsp;It&nbsp;has to&nbsp;come from the government.&nbsp;And I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;think any of us have really gotten our heads around&nbsp;\u2014 why harm the NIH&nbsp;when it is&nbsp;bipartisan,&nbsp;it is economically successful,&nbsp;and it has humanitarian value.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;the basis.&nbsp;The drug companies develop the drug and bring it to the market. But that basic, basic,&nbsp;earlier&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;called bench science,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;funded by the&nbsp;NIH.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I know.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;a mystery. Well, adding to RFK Jr.\u2019s bad week are the growing divisions within his base,&nbsp;the&nbsp;Make America&nbsp;Healthy&nbsp;Again&nbsp;movement. While the White House, seeing that the public doesn\u2019t really support&nbsp;MAHA\u2019s&nbsp;anti-vaccine positions,&nbsp;is trying to get HHS to tone it down, there was a major MAHA&nbsp;meetup just blocks from the White House this week, with sessions urging a complete end to the childhood vaccine schedule and the removal of all vaccines from the market, quote, until they can be proven&nbsp;\u201csafe and effective.\u201d&nbsp;By the way,&nbsp;most&nbsp;of&nbsp;them have&nbsp;been already. Meanwhile,&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;MAHA&nbsp;followers are still angry that the White House is supporting the continuing production of glyphosate, the weed killer sold commercially as Roundup. Democrats,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/03\/09\/i-share-your-outrage-democrats-make-overtures-to-maha-ahead-of-the-midterms-00817292\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">according to Politico<\/a>, are trying to exploit the divisions in the MAHA movement, which leads to the question:&nbsp;Will&nbsp;MAHA&nbsp;be a net plus or a net minus for this fall\u2019s midterm elections?&nbsp;On the one hand,&nbsp;I think Trump&nbsp;appointed Kennedy because he was hoping that&nbsp;the MAHA movement would be&nbsp;a boost to turnout.&nbsp;On the other hand, MAHA&nbsp;seems&nbsp;pretty split&nbsp;right now.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Edney:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well, I think&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;the million-dollar question,&nbsp;is&nbsp;which way&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to swing if they swing at all. And it\u2019s hard to say right now, because&nbsp;I think they&nbsp;are angry at certain aspects of things this administration is doing,&nbsp;the two things you mentioned,&nbsp;on&nbsp;Roundup and on vaccines, kind of telling RFK to kind of talk a little bit less about those. But will they be able to then vote for Democrats instead? I&nbsp;think,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;only March,&nbsp;so&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;so difficult to say&nbsp;what will happen between now and then.&nbsp;I think there\u2019s still things that the health secretary could do on food that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;talked about, that could draw attention away from that anger, that might make&nbsp;many&nbsp;of them happy.&nbsp;I think there&nbsp;were&nbsp;some&nbsp;things he&nbsp;kind of started&nbsp;doing early in his term&nbsp;that&nbsp;hasn\u2019t&nbsp;been talked&nbsp;about as much.&nbsp;And also, I think there\u2019s still the prospect of Casey&nbsp;Means becoming&nbsp;surgeon&nbsp;general&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;or not&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;out there, and that\u2019s&nbsp;kind of a&nbsp;big piece of this.&nbsp;If she is to get into the administration, and that is sort of up in the&nbsp;air&nbsp;right now, then that could&nbsp;kind of give&nbsp;them something else to focus on, because she is a large part of this playbook of the MAHA movement.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;right.&nbsp;And we are waiting to see sort of if she can get the votes even to get out of committee, much less get to the floor, see&nbsp;whether we\u2019re going to have, as&nbsp;some&nbsp;are saying, the first&nbsp;surgeon&nbsp;general who does not have an active license to practice medicine. Shefali, you wanted&nbsp;to add something.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;No, I just think&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;talked about this before on the podcast, that the food stuff is much more popular than the vaccine stuff. The vaccine components of&nbsp;MAHA&nbsp;remain very unpopular.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;difficult to really see or say sort of what the White House can do on food in a sustained, focused way,&nbsp;without going&nbsp;off-script, that is also popular. But I think to Anna\u2019s point,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;just so hard to say to what extent this&nbsp;ultimately matters&nbsp;in November, because there are just so many concerns right now. People&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;afford their health insurance, and gas prices are going up. And&nbsp;I just think we&nbsp;have to&nbsp;wait and see to what extent people are voting based on food policy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, well, we will see. All&nbsp;right,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to take a quick break. We will be right back.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>OK, turning to another Trump administration priority, fighting fraud. This week, the administration accused another&nbsp;Democratic-led state, New York, of not policing Medicaid fraud forcefully enough. This comes after the Centers for Medicare&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;Medicaid Services said it will withhold hundreds of millions of dollars from Minnesota, which our guest,&nbsp;Andy Schneider,&nbsp;will talk about at more length. Minnesota, by the way, last&nbsp;week sued the federal government over its Medicaid efforts. So that fight will continue for a while. But&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just blue states, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just Medicaid. In something I&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;have on my bingo card, this administration is also going after fraud in the Medicare Advantage&nbsp;program, which has long been a Republican darling.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Last week, CMS banned the Medicare Advantage plan&nbsp;operated&nbsp;by&nbsp;Elevance&nbsp;Health, which has&nbsp;nearly 2&nbsp;million Medicare patients currently enrolled,&nbsp;from adding any new enrollees starting March 31,&nbsp;for what the agency described as, quote,&nbsp;\u201csubstantial and persistent noncompliance with Medicare Advantage risk adjustment data.\u201d&nbsp;And on Tuesday, the&nbsp;congressional Joint Economic Committee reported that overpayments to those Medicare Advantage&nbsp;plans raised premiums by an estimated $200 per Medicare enrollee annually&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;all Medicare enrollees, not just those in the private Medicare Advantage plans. Is this the end of the honeymoon for Medicare Advantage? Joanne, you were there with me when Republicans were pushing this.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019ve&nbsp;been surprised, as you have,&nbsp;Julie, because&nbsp;basically Medicare&nbsp;Advantage has been the&nbsp;darling, and it&nbsp;is popular with people.&nbsp;It\u2019s grown and grown and grown,&nbsp;not because the government forced people in. It has good marketing and&nbsp;some&nbsp;benefits for the younger, healthier post-65 population, gyms and things like that.&nbsp;But&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and vision and dental, which&nbsp;are a big deal. But&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;also seen a backlash, in&nbsp;some&nbsp;ways, because there\u2019s the prior authorization issues in Medicare Advantage have gotten&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;attention&nbsp;the last couple of years. But not just am I surprised by&nbsp;sort&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;swing&nbsp;that&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;hearing&nbsp;about&nbsp;generally.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;surprised by Dr.&nbsp;Oz, because when he ran for Senate a couple&nbsp;years&nbsp;ago in Pennsylvania, and&nbsp;much&nbsp;of his public persona has been really, really,&nbsp;really gung-ho, pro Medicare Advantage.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And yet,&nbsp;some of&nbsp;you were at or,&nbsp;like me, watched the live stream of&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;he did&nbsp;a very interesting, thoughtful, and,&nbsp;I\u2019ve mentioned this at least one time before, hourlong conversation with&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;Q&amp;A at the Aspen Institute here in D.C.&nbsp;a couple of months ago. And one of the questions was someone said:&nbsp;<em>Dr.&nbsp;Oz,&nbsp;you\u2019ve&nbsp;just turned 65.&nbsp;Are you doing Medicare Advantage, or&nbsp;are&nbsp;you doing traditional Medicare?<\/em>&nbsp;And the expected answer for me was, well, I knew that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;on government insurance now.&nbsp;So&nbsp;he, you&nbsp;have to,&nbsp;at 65 you&nbsp;have to&nbsp;go into Medicare Advanta\u2014&nbsp;Medicare A,&nbsp;whether&nbsp;you&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;that\u2019s automatic.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;the hospital part. But you have the choice. But if&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;still working and getting insurance or government&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;on a government plan. He&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;have to do that. But&nbsp;he actually, and&nbsp;he pointed that out, but the next sentence really surprised me, because he said:&nbsp;<em>I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know. My wife and I are still talking about that.<\/em>&nbsp;And I thought that was&nbsp;A)&nbsp;a&nbsp;very honest answer. He&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;have to even&nbsp;say. But it was also,&nbsp;it just was interesting to me that after all that&nbsp;<em>Rah-rah&nbsp;Medicare Advantage<\/em>&nbsp;we were hearing about, his own personal choice&nbsp;was,&nbsp;<em>Not&nbsp;sure if that one\u2019s right for me.&nbsp;<\/em>So&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I was going to say,&nbsp;I feel like the Republicans are sort of twisting right now between Medicare Advantage, which they\u2019ve always pushed&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;they want to privatize Medicare because they don\u2019t like government health insurance&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and then there\u2019s&nbsp;the current populist&nbsp;push against big insurance companies, because, of course, all those Medicare Advantage&nbsp;plans belong to those big insurance companies that Republicans are suddenly saying are too big and getting too much money.&nbsp;So&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;sort of caught&nbsp;between&nbsp;trying to have it both ways.&nbsp;I\u2019ll&nbsp;be interested to see how they come down. One of the things that did strike me, though, even before Dr.&nbsp;Oz&nbsp;sort of started&nbsp;his little crusade against Medicare Advantage, was,&nbsp;I think it&nbsp;was at Kennedy\u2019s confirmation hearing that Sen.&nbsp;Bill Cassidy was suddenly questioning Medicare Advantage. That was, I think, the first Republican I saw to like,&nbsp;<em>Oh<\/em>.&nbsp;That made me raise my eyebrows.&nbsp;And I think since then, I\u2019ve&nbsp;kind of seen&nbsp;why.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;The&nbsp;populist talk&nbsp;against&nbsp;insurance companies,&nbsp;not giving money to insurance companies,&nbsp;is part of the Republican&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and,&nbsp;specifically, President Trump\u2019s&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;desire to not extend the ACA,&nbsp;the Affordable Care Act,&nbsp;enhanced subsidies. That was the basic:&nbsp;<em>Well,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;not going to do this,&nbsp;because&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;just throwing money at these insurance companies. And we&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;want to do that. We want to empower&nbsp;the patients.<\/em>&nbsp;That was&nbsp;the,&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not, and the missing piece of that argument is:&nbsp;Yes, the ACA subsidies go to insurance companies. However, all of us are benefiting in&nbsp;some&nbsp;way or other from government policies that&nbsp;benefit&nbsp;insurance companies.&nbsp;The tax breaks our employers get. The tax breaks we get for our insurance.&nbsp;And then the biggie, of course, is Medicare Advantage.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are paying Medicare Advantage more than we are paying traditional Medicare.&nbsp;So&nbsp;Medicare Advantage is&nbsp;private&nbsp;insurance&nbsp;companies, and the government has&nbsp;been just&nbsp;sending them&nbsp;lots&nbsp;and&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;money for years.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I\u2019m not sure it\u2019s&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;this Medicare Advantage thing is just bubbling up, and we\u2019re not&nbsp;really sure&nbsp;how this plays out. But&nbsp;I think that&nbsp;the rhetoric&nbsp;against insurance companies&nbsp;is&nbsp;the rhetoric&nbsp;against the ACA.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Oh, it is.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;Rather that&nbsp;hasn\u2019t&nbsp;yet&nbsp;been connected&nbsp;to the Medicare Advantage. I think&nbsp;they\u2019re,&nbsp;yes, we all know&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;connected. But I think the political debate, it\u2019s&nbsp;not Medicare&nbsp;Advantage&nbsp;is bad because insurance companies are bad.&nbsp;It\u2019s the&nbsp;ACA is bad because it enriches insurance companies.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a different ideological parade going down the road.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I was going to say,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;important to remember at the beginning of Medicare Advantage, which was a Republican proposal back in 2003,&nbsp;they purposely overpaid it. They gave it more money because they know that when they give them more money, the insurance companies&nbsp;are required&nbsp;to&nbsp;return&nbsp;some of&nbsp;that money to beneficiaries in the form of these extra benefits.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;why there are gym memberships and dental and vision and hearing coverage in these Medicare Advantage plans. It does make them popular, so people sign up. And that was&nbsp;sort of Republicans\u2019&nbsp;intent at the beginning. It was to&nbsp;sort of not&nbsp;so much push people into it but entice people into it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;then\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And then maybe cut it back later.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;No, but&nbsp;it\u2019s exceeded&nbsp;expectations.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Absolutely.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;The number of people going into Medicare Advantage has been&nbsp;really high, higher than people expected.&nbsp;And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;also hard to get out, depending on what state you live in.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;not impossible, but&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;costly and difficult, except for&nbsp;a few,&nbsp;I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;seven or eight&nbsp;states&nbsp;make it&nbsp;pretty easy. But also remember that the earlier version of what we now call Medicare Advantage was&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;which&nbsp;was the&nbsp;\u201990s, right Julie?&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;I think the Medicare Part C,&nbsp;and that failed.&nbsp;So&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well after,&nbsp;that failed because they cut it when they were&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;They cut all the funding when they were balancing the budget&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right.<strong>&nbsp;<\/strong>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;in&nbsp;1997.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;But that&nbsp;gave them&nbsp;the&nbsp;excu\u2014&nbsp;right.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;They made it&nbsp;fail.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;That&nbsp;gave them an excuse to give them more money later that, when they revived it, renamed it,&nbsp;and launched it&nbsp;in&nbsp;2003 legislation,&nbsp;that initial push to give them a ton of money, because they could say,&nbsp;<em>Well, we didn\u2019t give them enough money, and that\u2019s why they<\/em>&nbsp;<em>fa<\/em>\u2014<em>.&nbsp;<\/em>There&nbsp;are&nbsp;all sorts of political&nbsp;things going on that&nbsp;weren\u2019t&nbsp;strictly money. But&nbsp;yeah,&nbsp;it was part of the narrative of&nbsp;<em>Why we&nbsp;have to&nbsp;give them more money<\/em>,&nbsp;is&nbsp;<em>They need it.<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;Anyway,&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;also watch that space. Well, finally, this week, there\u2019s news on the reproductive health front, because there\u2019s always news on the reproductive health front. Shefali,&nbsp;Wyoming has become the latest state to enact a so-called heartbeat ban, barring abortions when cardiac activity can&nbsp;be detected.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;often around six weeks, which is before&nbsp;many&nbsp;people are even aware of being pregnant. I thought the Wyoming Supreme Court said just this past January that its constitution prevents abortion bans.&nbsp;So&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;up here?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;They did, in fact, say that, and so we are seeing this law taken to court.&nbsp;It was&nbsp;actually added&nbsp;in a court filing to a preexisting case challenging other abortion restrictions in the state.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;sure&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;going to play out for quite&nbsp;some&nbsp;time. But&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;interesting about the Wyoming&nbsp;Constitution&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;right?&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;is that it protects the right to make health care decisions,&nbsp;in an effort to&nbsp;sort&nbsp;of&nbsp;fight against the ACA. That was this&nbsp;conservative approach that now has come to really&nbsp;benefit&nbsp;abortion rights supporters as well. But what I think&nbsp;this underscores&nbsp;is that even as we are seeing&nbsp;fairly little&nbsp;abortion policy in Washington, at least in a meaningful way,&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;is still happening on the state level. That really is where the bulk of action is, whether you see that in Wyoming,&nbsp;in Missouri, where&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;trying to undo the abortion rights protections there, and just\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;The ones that passed by voters.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;what we\u2019re really thinking about is anti-abortion activists are not really that confident in the&nbsp;president\u2019s desire, interest, ability, what have you, to get their agenda items done. And for now, they are really focusing on the states, and that is where their interest, I think, will only remain, at least until the primary for the next presidential race begins in earnest.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well,&nbsp;Shefali,&nbsp;I also want to ask you about&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/19thnews.org\/2026\/03\/abortion-bans-reproductive-health-rental-market-research\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">a story that you wrote<\/a>&nbsp;this week on just how many things ripple out economically from abortion restrictions. Now&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;having an impact on rent prices?&nbsp;Please explain.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;I thought&nbsp;this was so interesting. It was this&nbsp;NBER&nbsp;[National Bureau of Economic Research]&nbsp;paper that came out this week, and they looked at comparably trending rental markets in states with abortion bans and those without them. And what they saw was that after the&nbsp;<em>Dobbs<\/em>&nbsp;decision, rental prices declined&nbsp;relative&nbsp;to places without bans, compared to those in those that had them.&nbsp;And this is&nbsp;really interesting.&nbsp;It just&nbsp;sort of continues.&nbsp;Rental prices went down,&nbsp;and also&nbsp;vacancies went up.&nbsp;And what the researchers say is this is&nbsp;a very, very dramatic&nbsp;and clear relationship, and it illustrates that people, when they have a choice, are considering abortion rights in terms of where they want to live. And anecdotally, we know that,&nbsp;because&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;seen residents make choices about where they will practice.&nbsp;We\u2019ve&nbsp;seen doctors decide where they will live. We have seen people move. Companies offer relocation benefits if people want them. And this is more data that illustrates that&nbsp;actually that&nbsp;affects the economy of communities, and it really underscores that where we live just simply will look different based on things&nbsp;like abortion rights and abortion policy and other of these things that&nbsp;are treated&nbsp;as social but really do affect people\u2019s economic behaviors.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And as we pointed out before,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just about quote-unquote&nbsp;\u201cabortion,\u201d&nbsp;because when doctors choose not to live in a certain place,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;other types of health&nbsp;care.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;all&nbsp;health&nbsp;care. And we know that doctors tend to marry or partner with other doctors. So sometimes if an OB GYN&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;want to move to a certain place, then that OB-GYN\u2019s&nbsp;partner, who may be&nbsp;some&nbsp;completely other type of&nbsp;doctor,&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;going to move there either.&nbsp;So&nbsp;we are starting to see&nbsp;some of&nbsp;these geographical shifts going on.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;And one point&nbsp;actually that&nbsp;the researcher made that I thought was so interesting was that abortion policy, it can be emblematic, in and of itself, a reason people choose not to live somewhere, but people may also be making these decisions because of what it represents. Do I look at an abortion policy and say,&nbsp;<em>Oh, this reflects social values or gender beliefs<\/em>?&nbsp;Or does it also suggest&nbsp;maybe more&nbsp;anti-LGBTQ+&nbsp;laws?&nbsp;And all of that can create a picture that is broader than simply abortion or&nbsp;not, and&nbsp;determine&nbsp;where and how people want to live their lives.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;a really interesting&nbsp;story.&nbsp;We will&nbsp;link&nbsp;to it.&nbsp;All right, that is this week\u2019s news. Now&nbsp;I\u2019ll&nbsp;play my interview with Andy Schneider of Georgetown University, and then we will be back to do our extra credits.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I am pleased to welcome to the podcast Andy Schneider, a research professor of the practice at the Georgetown University McCourt School of Public Policy. And he spent&nbsp;many&nbsp;years on Capitol Hill helping write and shape Medicaid law as a top aide to California Democratic&nbsp;congressman&nbsp;Henry Waxman&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and&nbsp;many&nbsp;hours explaining it to me.&nbsp;I have asked him here to help untangle the Medicaid fraud fight now taking place between the federal government and,&nbsp;at least so far, mostly&nbsp;Democratic-led states. Andy, thanks for being here.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;Thanks for having me,&nbsp;Julie.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not like fraud in Medicaid&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and other health programs,&nbsp;for that matter&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;is anything new.&nbsp;Who are the major perpetrators of health care fraud?&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;not usually the&nbsp;patients, is it?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;No,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;usually&nbsp;some&nbsp;bad-actor providers or bad-actor businesspeople.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So how are fraud-fighting efforts at both the federal and state level, since Medicaid funding&nbsp;is shared, supposed to work?&nbsp;How does the federal government and the state government&nbsp;sort of try&nbsp;and make fraud as minimal as possible? Since&nbsp;presumably they\u2019re&nbsp;never going to get&nbsp;rid of it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;Unfortunately, I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;think&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;ever going to get rid of it in Medicaid or Medicare or private insurance or in other&nbsp;walks of life. There are bad actors out there.&nbsp;They\u2019re&nbsp;going to try to take&nbsp;advantage.&nbsp;So&nbsp;you need your defenses up.&nbsp;So&nbsp;the short of this is,&nbsp;Medicaid&nbsp;is administered&nbsp;on a day-to-day basis by the states. The federal government&nbsp;pays for&nbsp;a majority of&nbsp;it and oversees how the states run their programs. In that context, the state Medicaid agency and the state&nbsp;fraud&nbsp;control&nbsp;unit have a&nbsp;primary role in&nbsp;identifying&nbsp;where there might be fraud, investigating,&nbsp;and then,&nbsp;in&nbsp;appropriate cases,&nbsp;prosecuting. The federal government also has a role, however. Depending on the scope of the fraud, it could involve the FBI. It could involve the Office of Inspector General at the Department of Health and Human Services.&nbsp;So&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;both federal and state presence, but the primary responsibilities were the&nbsp;states\u2019.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We know that Minnesota has been experiencing a Medicaid fraud problem,&nbsp;because both the state and the federal government have been working on it for more than a year now. What is the Trump administration doing in Minnesota?&nbsp;And why is&nbsp;this&nbsp;different from what the federal government has traditionally done when&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;trying to ensure that states are appropriately trying to minimize fraud?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well, usually the&nbsp;vice&nbsp;president of the United States does not get up at a White House press conference and announce he and the Centers for Medicare&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;Medicaid&nbsp;Services are&nbsp;withholding $260 million in federal funds,&nbsp;called&nbsp;a&nbsp;deferral. That is highly, highly unusual. And normally&nbsp;the&nbsp;head of the Centers&nbsp;for Medicare&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;Medicaid Services does not&nbsp;go and make&nbsp;videos in the state before something like this&nbsp;is announced.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I would say that this is&nbsp;way out&nbsp;of the ordinary, and&nbsp;I think it&nbsp;has to do with&nbsp;some&nbsp;animus in the administration towards&nbsp;Gov.&nbsp;[Tim]&nbsp;Walz and his administration.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;Gov.&nbsp;Walz, for those who&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;remember, was the&nbsp;vice presidential&nbsp;candidate in 2024 running against President Trump, who did win, in fact. But there have been two different efforts to withhold Medicaid money for Minnesota, right?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. Now&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;into&nbsp;the Medicaid&nbsp;weeds, but since you asked the question,&nbsp;I\u2019ll&nbsp;take you there. So in January, the&nbsp;administra\u2014&nbsp;the Center for Medicare&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;Medicaid Services&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;we\u2019ll call them CMS here&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;they announced they were going to withhold about&nbsp;$2 billion&nbsp;a year going forward, not looking back&nbsp;but going forward,&nbsp;in matching funds that the federal government would otherwise pay to the state of Minnesota for the services that it was providing to its over 1 million beneficiaries. In February at this White House press conference, what the&nbsp;vice&nbsp;president announced was withholding temporarily&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;we\u2019ll see how temporary it is&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;but withholding temporarily&nbsp;$260 million in federal Medicaid matching funds that applied to state spending that\u2019s already occurred, happened in the past, happened in the quarter ending Sept.&nbsp;30, 2025.&nbsp;So&nbsp;both the past expenditures and future expenditures are targets for these CMS actions.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;what happens if the federal government&nbsp;actually doesn\u2019t&nbsp;pay the state this money? I assume more than people who are committing fraud would&nbsp;be&nbsp;impacted.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well,&nbsp;let\u2019s&nbsp;be clear.&nbsp;The&nbsp;amounts of money here,&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;no relationship between those and however&nbsp;much&nbsp;fraud is going on in Minnesota. And there has been fraud against Medicaid in Minnesota.&nbsp;Everybody\u2019s&nbsp;clear about that. The state is clear about it. The feds are clear about it. But&nbsp;$2 billion&nbsp;going forward in a year,&nbsp;$1 billion&nbsp;going,&nbsp;looking backwards,&nbsp;$260 million times four&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;no relationship between those amounts, right? Should they&nbsp;come to pass&nbsp;\u2014and all of this is still in process&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;should those amounts&nbsp;come to pass, you\u2019re looking at, depending on who\u2019s doing the estimates, between&nbsp;7&nbsp;and 18% of the amount of money the federal government pays,&nbsp;helps the state with,&nbsp;each year in Medicaid.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;just an enormous hole for a state to fill, and it&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;have&nbsp;many&nbsp;good options. It can cut eligibility. It can cut services. It can cut reimbursement rates. Filling in that hole with state revenues,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;going to be a real stretch.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just Minnesota. Now the administration says it is seeing concerning things going on in New York and has launched a probe&nbsp;there. Is there any&nbsp;indication&nbsp;that this administration is going after states that&nbsp;are not run&nbsp;by Democrats?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;the only letters that&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;seen from the administration have been to California, New York,&nbsp;and Maine. There may be other letters out there. We only access the public&nbsp;record.&nbsp;So&nbsp;so&nbsp;far, based on what we know,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;just&nbsp;been&nbsp;Democratically&nbsp;run&nbsp;states.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;As long as&nbsp;I\u2019ve&nbsp;been covering this, which is now a long time, fraud-fighting has been&nbsp;pretty bipartisan.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;been something that Congress has worked on, Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Democrats and Republicans in the&nbsp;states.&nbsp;What\u2019s&nbsp;the danger of politicizing fraud-fighting,&nbsp;which is what&nbsp;certainly seems to be&nbsp;going on right now?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;a terrific point.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it&nbsp;always has&nbsp;been&nbsp;bipartisan, because&nbsp;money is green.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;not red.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;not blue.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;green. And trying to keep bad actors from ripping it off from Medicaid or Medicare&nbsp;has always been a bipartisan undertaking. The reason that\u2019s important, particularly in a program like Medicaid, where the federal government and the state&nbsp;have to&nbsp;talk to one another when they are flagging potential fraud, when they\u2019re investigating it, when they\u2019re prosecuting it, you don\u2019t want the agencies tripping all over one another. You want them&nbsp;sharing&nbsp;information&nbsp;as necessary,&nbsp;etc.&nbsp;When that gets politicized,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;very bad&nbsp;for the results and for the effective operation of the program.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well&nbsp;we will keep watching this space, and&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;have you back to explain it more. Andy Schneider, thank&nbsp;you very much.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Schneider:<\/strong>&nbsp;Julie&nbsp;Rovner, thank you very much.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;OK,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;back.&nbsp;Now&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;time for our&nbsp;extra-credit&nbsp;segment.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;where we each recognize the story we read this&nbsp;week&nbsp;we think you should read,&nbsp;too.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Anna, why don\u2019t you start us off&nbsp;this week?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Edney:<\/strong>&nbsp;Sure.&nbsp;Mine is in&nbsp;The Wall Street Journal.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;[\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wsj.com\/health\/healthcare\/autism-therapy-medicaid-payments-640aa435?mod=hp_lead_pos7\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The Boom in Autism Therapy Is Medicaid\u2019s Fastest-Growing Jackpot<\/a>\u201d].&nbsp;This is a look at the booming business of providing therapy to children with autism. And&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;particularly&nbsp;been big in the Medicaid&nbsp;program. And I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;want to give away too much, because there&nbsp;are&nbsp;just so many jaw-dropping details&nbsp;in&nbsp;this.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I guess the reporters&nbsp;were able to&nbsp;kind of go&nbsp;through the data and billing records in a way that showed&nbsp;some of&nbsp;these companies and what they were doing and how they were becoming millionaires, people who had never done anything in autism before.&nbsp;So&nbsp;if you enjoy a sort of jaw-dropping read, I think you should&nbsp;take a look&nbsp;at it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, jaw-dropping is&nbsp;definitely the&nbsp;right description.&nbsp;Joanne.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;I&nbsp;sort of rummaged&nbsp;around the internet to the less widely read sources, and I came across this&nbsp;great story&nbsp;from the Idaho&nbsp;Capital&nbsp;Sun by Laura Guido. It has a long headline.&nbsp;Reminder that 988 is the mental health crisis line and suicide help. The headline is:&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/idahocapitalsun.com\/2026\/02\/18\/988-ended-his-call-now-an-idaho-teen-is-pushing-for-a-fix-to-states-parental-consent-law\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">988&nbsp;Ended&nbsp;His Call.&nbsp;Now&nbsp;an&nbsp;Idaho&nbsp;Teen Is Pushing for a Fix to the State\u2019s Parental Consent Law.<\/a>\u201d&nbsp;The story is that a 15-year-old boy named Jace&nbsp;Woods called&nbsp;two years ago&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;so this still&nbsp;hasn\u2019t&nbsp;been fixed&nbsp;after two years&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and they cut&nbsp;him&nbsp;off. They&nbsp;sort of gently&nbsp;cut&nbsp;him&nbsp;off. But they&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;talk to these kids who have,&nbsp;who are in crisis,&nbsp;without parental consent. They do a quick assessment. If they think someone\u2019s life is&nbsp;immediately&nbsp;in&nbsp;danger&nbsp;right then and there, they can stay on. But a kid&nbsp;who\u2019s&nbsp;what they call suicidal ideation, seriously depressed and at risk, and knows&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;at risk or&nbsp;she\u2019s&nbsp;at risk, and made this phone&nbsp;call,&nbsp;they&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;talk to them unless they think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;imminent.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it also affects,&nbsp;these parental,&nbsp;it affects sexual health and STDs and abortion and&nbsp;whole&nbsp;lot of other&nbsp;things.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;what it was for.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;That was the&nbsp;initial&nbsp;reason, but it got bigger.&nbsp;So&nbsp;a kid who calls in a crisis can get no help at all. And even in those emergency situations where they can stay on the line and try to get emergency help if they do&nbsp;think&nbsp;a&nbsp;kid\u2019s&nbsp;in imminent danger,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not allowed to make a follow-up call to make sure&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;OK.&nbsp;So&nbsp;this kid has been trying for two years.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a state lawmaker.&nbsp;They\u2019re&nbsp;refining a law. They say&nbsp;it\u2019s,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;refining a bill.&nbsp;They say&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;going to go through. But really this,&nbsp;talk about unintended consequences. We have a national mental health crisis, particularly acute for teens. This is not solving any problems.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;It is not.&nbsp;Shefali.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;My story is in&nbsp;The New York Times. It is by&nbsp;Apoorva&nbsp;Mandavilli. The headline is&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/03\/02\/health\/hiv-drugs-ryan-white.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">States&nbsp;Move To Limit Access to&nbsp;H.I.V.&nbsp;Treatment<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;just&nbsp;a good story&nbsp;about what is happening with the Ryan White AIDS&nbsp;Drug&nbsp;Assistance&nbsp;Programs, which people use to get their HIV medications paid for or for free. They get insurance support. And these are&nbsp;really important.&nbsp;Funding has been&nbsp;pretty flat&nbsp;for quite&nbsp;some&nbsp;time because they\u2019re funded by Congress.&nbsp;And what the story gets into is that with growing financial pressure on these programs, there is more-expensive drugs, there are more-expensive insurance premiums, more people might be losing Medicaid. States are having to make&nbsp;very difficult&nbsp;choices, and they are cutting benefits. They are changing who is eligible, because&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;getting more expensive and there is more need and there is no support coming. And I wasn\u2019t really on top of this and did not know what was going on, and I just thought it was interesting and&nbsp;a very useful&nbsp;look at&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the consequences of the policy choices that are making&nbsp;all of&nbsp;these health programs more expensive and health care,&nbsp;in general, harder to afford.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;My extra credit this week is from&nbsp;The Marshall Project.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.themarshallproject.org\/2026\/03\/02\/immigration-detention-releases-family-dilley\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The Harrowing Journey Home for Families Leaving Immigration Detention<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;by Shannon&nbsp;Heffernan&nbsp;and Jesse&nbsp;Bogan&nbsp;and Anna Flagg. It answers the question that I\u2019ve been wondering about since the whole immigration crackdown began, which is:&nbsp;What happens to the people who&nbsp;are snatched&nbsp;off the streets or out of their cars or homes,&nbsp;flown to a distant state, and then someone says:&nbsp;<em>Oops, sorry. You can go.<\/em>&nbsp;How do you get home from Texas or Louisiana to Minnesota or Massachusetts? Authorities&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;give you plane or even bus tickets&nbsp;to get back to where you&nbsp;were picked&nbsp;up, even though&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;where&nbsp;most of&nbsp;those&nbsp;being released&nbsp;are&nbsp;required&nbsp;to go to report back to immigration authorities. It turns out&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a small network of charities that is helping. But as the story details&nbsp;pretty vividly, the harm to these families&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;end when their detention&nbsp;does.\/&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>OK.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;this week\u2019s show. As always, thanks to our editor,&nbsp;Emmarie Huetteman,&nbsp;and our producer-engineer.&nbsp;Francis Ying. A&nbsp;reminder:&nbsp;<em>What the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app,&nbsp;and wherever you get your podcasts, as well as, of course,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">kffhealthnews.org<\/a>.&nbsp;Also, as always, you can email&nbsp;us&nbsp;your comments or questions.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;at whatthehealth@kff.org.&nbsp;Or you can still find me on&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@jrovner<\/a>, or on&nbsp;Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@julierovner<\/a>. Where are&nbsp;you guys&nbsp;hanging these days?&nbsp;Shefali?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Luthra:<\/strong>&nbsp;I am at Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/shefali.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@shefali<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Anna.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Edney:<\/strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/annaedney\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">X<\/a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/annaedney.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Bluesky<\/a>,&nbsp;@annaedney.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Joanne.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Kenen:<\/strong>&nbsp;A&nbsp;little bit of&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/joannekenen.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Bluesky<\/a>&nbsp;and more on&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/joannekenen\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a>,&nbsp;@joannekenen.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We&nbsp;will&nbsp;be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-credits block--credits\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"credits-title\">\n\t\tCredits\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"credits-card-container twowide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Francis Ying<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Audio producer<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Emmarie Huetteman <\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Editor <\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" \/>\n\n\n\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/our-podcasts\/\"><u>Click here to find all our podcasts.<\/u><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>And subscribe to &#8220;What the Health? From KFF Health News&#8221; on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/what-the-health\/id1253607372?mt=2\"><u>Apple Podcasts<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/32EdsB662C3oyIrqLMmBXI?si=TQhRjzzLTgWtK3crfbOFtA\"><u>Spotify<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/app.npr.org\/aggregation\/fis-1269164038\"><u>the NPR app<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PL5Qew-7pSXbAucCUQnyRx6qpLglzrxzFb\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/play.pocketcasts.com\/web\/podcasts\/a379e280-3f57-0135-9028-63f4b61a9224\"><u>Pocket Casts<\/u><\/a>, or wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had another tough week. In addition to Kennedy having rotator cuff surgery, the nomination of his ally to become surgeon general is teetering, the controversial head of the FDA&#8217;s vaccine center is resigning next month, and a new survey shows Americans trust government health officials less than they do former Biden official Anthony Fauci. Anna Edney of Bloomberg News, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine, and Shefali Luthra of The 19th join KFF Health News\u2019 Julie Rovner to discuss these stories and more. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":2103181,"template":"","meta":{"_cr_original_post":"2103176","_cr_replace_post_id":"","_cr_replacing_post_id":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"kaiser_health_news_featured_image_caption":"","kaiser_health_news_header_theme_slug":"","kaiser_health_news_hero_image":0,"kaiser_health_news_backdrop_padding":115,"kaiser_health_news_kicker":"What the Health? 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Kennedy Jr. had another tough week. In addition to Kennedy having rotator cuff surgery, the nomination of his ally to become surgeon general is teetering, the controversial head of the FDA&#039;s vaccine center is resigning next month, and a new survey shows Americans trust government health officials less than they do former Biden official Anthony Fauci. Anna Edney of Bloomberg News, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine, and Shefali Luthra of The 19th join KFF Health News\u2019 Julie Rovner to discuss these stories and more.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/podcast\/what-the-health-437-rfk-jr-kennedy-casey-means-prasad-march-12-2026\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"RFK Jr.\u2019s Very Bad Week - KFF Health News\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had another tough week. In addition to Kennedy having rotator cuff surgery, the nomination of his ally to become surgeon general is teetering, the controversial head of the FDA&#039;s vaccine center is resigning next month, and a new survey shows Americans trust government health officials less than they do former Biden official Anthony Fauci. 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